Kiehl's Super Fluid UV Defense SPF 50+ Review, Photos

I think it’s safe to say that every poster has made some excellent points about sunscreens and sunblocks in general. Here’s my opinion on some of the posts below.

AS-You are correct that chemical sunscreens do degrade rapidly over time when exposed to the sun and that physical sunblocks do not, at least not in a significantly fast time frame. However, this does not mean that physical sunblocks do not have to be reapplied, which is the suggestion I’m getting here. Also, there is no way that any chemical sunscreen ingredient is considered an “oil.” There are 2 types of oils, organic oils or lipids, and inorganic oil like mineral oil. Chemical sunscreen ingredients do not fit in either category. The types of silicone that are used in sunscreen formulations are only present to act as a base or vehicle for the delivery of the active ingredients. They are not used to “absorb” any of this so called oiliness. Granted, the choice of the vehicular ingredient can be more drying or more moisturizing, but they are not there to “absorb the oiliness from a chemical sunscreen ingredient.” As to the debate about parabens, that is a massively inconclusive debate that just isn’t worth the effort. To put a long story short, although they may demonstrate some unwanted side effects, the amount present in products cannot significantly manifest a measurable response in users of these products that contain parabens. However, like anything, it is up to the user to decide what to do. Parabens, as effective preservatives, act to greatly reduce the development of fungal and bacterial growths in products. So if you’re using a product that does not have parabens, you risk a large chance that yes, you won’t be applying parabens to your skin, but you could be applying bacteria or fungus to them. I mean, really, you pick your battles, which brings me to the next topic you addressed. Vitamin A. When you say some “antioxidants” actually increase cancer chances; that is mostly incorrect. By definition, antioxidants work AGAINST oxidation, which in this case, can be equated with free radical damage, or FRD for short. Now, FRD actually does increase the chance of cancer. FRD works by oxidative chemical processes. ANTI-oxidants work to impede that inevitable process. Now, Vitamin A is considered an antioxidant, however, there are many forms of vitamin A. There is beta-carotene, retinyl palmitate, retinyl acetate, retinol, retinal or retinaldehyde, and retinoic acid or tretinoin, which is a part of a group of retinoids, and other forms. In the body, all of these substances perform different functions, some antioxidative, and others, completely different. When it comes to the skin however, only retinoids can actually have a direct effect on the skin. All the other ingredients are precursors in a long chemical chain reaction that the skin has to first go through before they can be utilized. Typically it’s, beta carotene to retinyl palmitate/acetate to retinol to retinal then finally to tretinoin. Now the conversation rates, though there are no exact numbers, are very small. Let’s just that the conversation for each step is 10%, which I think is a very large estimation. But it’ll work for our purposes here. Most sunscreens use the form retinyl palmitate (RP) in their formulations, so in order for the skin to actually utilize some of the Vitamin A derivative, it would have to go through the entire conversion chain. So let’s say a product has 0.1% of RP, which is quite a lot, considering Vitamin-A skincare treatments have a maximum of about 1% RP or another precursor. So 0.1% of RP becomes 0.01% of retinol, which becomes 0.001% of retinal, which finally becomes 0.0001% of tretinoin, the form that the skin can actually utilize. Now, prescription tretinoin is available from 0.01% to 0.1% strengths, in either a cream or gel vehicle. So most sunscreens typical have one-hundredth the strength of the weakest prescription formulation of tretinoin. Now, Tretinoin is known for sensitizing the skin to the UV rays of the sun. However…One, like I just demonstrated, the amount present is typically too low to have a significant and/or cumulative effect on the skin. Two, I think you’ve been reading too much of EWG. That organization, if you can call it one, is nothing more than a brilliant marketing ploy. At the end of the day, they are after money, not the proliferation of meaningful, unbiased, and honest advice. Furthermore, the studies and tests that the EWG cite as their evidence that retinyl Palmitate increases the likelihood of cancer, were not done correctly. Basically they grabbed a bunch of rats and rubbed RP on their skin and exposed them to UV light. In the end, based on their control and experimental group statistics, this study concluded that the amount of cancers in the experimental group, which is the group that had RP rubbed on to their skin, was significantly higher than that of the control group, which had UV light exposed to bare skin. Yes, this does show that RP may sensitive the skin to UV rays. However, it does not matter. This study is completely irrelevant and meaningless for this reason. They did not test if RP coupled with CHEMICAL OR PHYSICAL SUNSCREENS/SUNBLOCKS increased the amount of cancer in the rats. And THAT is what is actually relevant. So regardless of what the study proved, the fact that the EWG would use this study as conclusive proof that sunscreens with Vitamin-A increase cancer risks should give you pause. But really at the end of the day, like I said before, the choice is up to you whether or not you want to listen. You do pick your own battles, so if you strongly believe that the EWG is correct, then there are many options out there for you. There are many sunscreens and sunblocks that do not have any form of Vitamin A in their formulations. One more thing to address about Vitamin-A. Like I said, the skin can only absorb and utilize tretinoin and other retinoids. So while, tretinoin is a form of Vitamin-A, which is an antioxidant, it is first and foremost a retinoid. And retinoids do not function as antioxidants, they are more akin to enzymatic catalysts. So going back to the beginning when you say “some antioxidants increase the risk of cancer,” that is essentially incorrect.

AshD-I think you also have been reading too much EWG. Like AS who cited information from the EWG, maybe you’re the same person haha, please note that the EWG has created yet another smear campaign for a sunscreen ingredient, but this instead of focusing on Vitamin A, they focused on oxybenzone. Now you are correct that benzophenone has demonstrated to have unwanted side effect in the body. However, you are incorrect that benzophenone and oxybenzone are one and the same. Oxybenzone is a derivative, or another form simply put, of benzophenone. Like I demonstrated with Vitamin-A, derivatives do not function the same way, and cannot therefore be treated as equals. That’s would be like saying hydrogen peroxide is the same as water and oxygen, its derivatives. I’m not saying that oxybenzone is completely harmless, I’m just demonstrating that your evidenciary support is null and void. Oxybenzone is currently FDA approved and has been used for decades. Now if you’re gonna argue something about how the FDA is paid by private corporations and is biased, then I’m sure the EWG, a much smaller and financially incapable organization, can give more meaningful data. Like I said above, at the end of the day, you pick your own battles. I know I keep repeating this, but it’s so true. So if you do want sunscreens without this ingredients, there are many out there. However, what I discourage is to try and scare everyone with this information. Almost everything that has to rely on scare-tactics, instead of a wide range of credible evidence, like the EWG claims on Vitamin-A, parabens, and oxybenzone, are not significantly valid. Also later, you say that you need 10% zinc oxide to get good UVA protection. Claims like that are rather dangerous. Because “good” and the “types of zinc oxide” vary quite a bit. I mean what is “good” protection? Furthermore, 10% of different types of zinc oxide are not the same. Some are coated with different ingredients, some are not coated-those should be avoided, and some are refined differently, meaning they are different shapes and sizes. All of which, can change the efficacy of the amount of protection. So 10% of a less refined zinc oxide is not the same as 10% of a very refined zinc oxide. Just keep that in mind when making statements like the one you made. I think a common theme in all of my arguments is to maintain an open mind and not accept one argument as the definitive source of all your reasoning.

Christine and Emmers-Emmers is correct that as SPF ratings, which only address the amount of protection from the UVB rays of the sun, go up, they provide less and less of a difference in terms of additional UVB protection. The amount of protection as SPF ratings increase follow a logarithmic function, while the amount of sunscreen ingredients needed to achieve such an SPF rating increases linearly. The scary thing about this is that a lot of people will apply less of a sunscreen with a high SPF rating than they would with a sunscreen with a low SPF rating. This would actually give them less protection, which is extremely detrimental. Christine, perhaps the 1-3% extra protection is a huge difference for your friends, if they actually are getting that extra 1-3% protection… The placebo effect that Emmers mentions is valid. Have your friends try a lower rated SPF sunscreen with the knowledge that they are using their regular high SPF sunscreen. See what happens, and I think you’ll be surprised.

Okay.. that was way too much text. Please note that I am not an industry expert, just another avid reader, so don’t take my word 100% without questioning the issues that I bring up, not that you should do that for anyone really. Like I said before, it’s all about balance and moderation. It’s really an art trying to find the perfect combination of products with the right ingredients, for any individual person. Finally, I would like to apologize if I came across as rude, because that was not my intention. Please let me know if I did, so that I can correct such tendencies.

Hi! 🙂 I’m 15 and I’ve been using the Neutrogena Dry Touch sunblock. I stumbled upon this post and read a few of the comments mentioning that they wouldn’t use sunblocks with the ingredients listed? I’m confused. Neutrogena has the same active ingrdients and I was wondering if there is anything bad associated with using it?
Thank you, your response would greatly inform me!